I'm live blogging the debate. Jump in at the comments section. Refresh the post frequently.
Candidates are Fred Thompson, Mike Huckabee, Rudy Giuliani, John McCain, and Mitt Romney. Moderator is Chris Wallace.
First question - Taxes
Romney on his record as governor - Raised fees. Lowering taxes grows the economy, builds jobs and helps families. Senator McCain voted against Bush tax cuts. Cut taxes 19 times in his state and held down spending. Proposed a special savings plan in middle class - zero tax if your income is under $200K.
McCain - I'm proud to support tax cuts that Reagan proposed. He thought we should cut taxes AND spending. We let spending get out of control and the deficit went up. We ended up betraying the principles of the GOP. He'll use the veto pen. He hasn't accepted pork.
[He doesn't want to acknowledge the success of the cuts when questioned again about the Bush cuts. ]
Romney - As governor I cut spending and state employment. I vetoed hundreds of items. I've done those things. I have a record of getting it done.
McCain - Ask various people if he hasn't cut spending in appropriation bills. I have a record of saving billions for the taxpayers.
Huckabee - The semantics about taxes and fees - it is still money the government is taking from you. I cut taxes 94 times and they helped families. We froze property taxes for seniors. We improved our schools, increased teacher pay and rebuilt the road system. It is about saying 'I made government work.'
Romney - Mike, I'm asking you a question did your taxes net an increase of 500 million dollars?
Huckabee - Did you oppose or support the Bush tax cuts?
Romney - I have always supported those tax cuts.
Huckabee - I was under a court order to improve education (excuse for raising taxes).
Giuliani - I lowered the income tax rate by 24%, yielding 42% more revenues. Overall tax burden was reduced by 17% on New Yorkers. I am a supply-sider. Reduce a corporate tax, we would make more money.
Thompson - (responding to Wallace) I never said I was cutting social security. I have the only plan on social security. Allow people to set up individual retirement accounts with matched funds. Index initial retirement benefits to inflation instead of wages. We are making promises to retirees that we can't deliver. Keep the cost of living increase. You take the case to the American people. You have to convince them.
Romney - Reducing the initial benefit of retirees is a big mistake and would be wrong. The other points have merit. Adjusting the retirement age will help.
McCain - I admire Fred's courage. We have to sit down together - Republican and Democrat - and tell the American people that social security is broken and fix it.
On Populism...
Huckabee - Does Romney remind you of someone who laid you off? A lot of people feel like the people in Washington to have a clue of the hardships in the American family. They are working two jobs and not getting ahead.
Romney - You aren't going to help the wage earner in America by attacking the wage giver. It is offensive when Democrats attack the corporate sector. I know what it is like to make a tough decision. We need a president who understands the economy. I know how to deal with China and unfair trade.
Huckabee - I'm the only person saying I oppose corporate taxes and death.
Thompson - You are going to get rid of death?
Huckabee - I meant the death tax. I don't want to tax rich people and make them poor.
Giuliani - I have had the most experience of helping bring people out of poverty. The GOP does not explain well to the poor that our policies are the ladders out of poverty. [Editor's note: I agree with this sentence.] Explain how the programs work - such as work fair.
Thompson - Likes certain aspects of fair tax proposed by Huckabee, but feels the better answer is the Flat Tax proposal. This is revenue neutral. You can succeed with getting this passed as an alternative to the IRS tax structure. A choice - a move toward substantial tax reform.
McCain - I have been an agent of change - including the change in strategy in Iraq. [Editor's note: For a moment when he discussed his greatest change, I thought he was going to say McCain-Feingold. Ah, he did mention it. Ha!] I know how the system works. I know how to go after them. I'm very proud of the change that saved American lives in Iraq.
Romney - (Speaking about McCain) He's been an agent of change. But Washington is fundamentally broken, and needs top to bottom change. Someone inside Washington is not going to be able to make those kinds of changes. Sending the same people to Washington but in different chairs isn't going to make things better [Editor's note: This is a substantial point. I think spending too much time in Washington makes K Street lobbyists rather tempting. Self-induced term limits are a good thing.]
McCain - I also have experience in leadership, not management, when in the US Navy. I'm proud of that. I had the foresight in what needed to be done in Iraq. Americans want security. I know how to meet that challenge of radical Islamic extremism. I know how to get Osama Bin Laden.
Thompson - Everyone's talking about change. It has been a part of every election. What is more important is leadership - telling the American people the truth. The war is going to take time and resources. We aren't going to be energy independent in a few years. We are spending our next generation's money. Those are truths. We have to go to the American people with that kind of honesty/change.
Giuliani - Obama, Clinton and Edwards are talking about change - just the bad kind. Republicans are talking about tax cuts - good changes. Are you going to make us stronger? Are we going to be on offense against Islamic terrorism.
Romney - (On national security and foreign policy experience) The American people time after time have said they want executive experience over senate experience. They want someone with judgment, wisdom, calm under fire, reach out to others, exchange ideas, a person with executive leadership. The Clintons today endorsed Senator McCain's immigration plan.
McCain - Maybe we haven't gotten the best results from those governors depending on which one you look at. I know the players. I never heard Romney criticize the Rumsfeld strategy. I hope the people will judge me on my merits.
Romney - I was running a state at the time the war was entered into. [Editor's note: Running a state doesn't preclude you from having opinions about other national issues - health care, taxes, abortion, etc... Sorry, no pass on that one, Mitt.] I did go to Iraq. I was encouraged by the creation of a coalition government. But I also agreed there were flaws with intelligence and failures there. I wasn't looking at my shoes, I was running a state. My skill is in taking on tough situations and drawing on others to help solve those issues.
Huckabee - (Responding to the many examples Wallace cites about his lack of foreign policy) I've been all over the Middle east, Europe, Asia. I've got more executive experience than anyone running and getting re-elected. My leadership skills are clear - healthcare, transportation, job grown, tax cuts, education. When you make lots of speeches, you make verbal slips, but I don't have slips of moral clarity. We should have the kind of military that no one wants to engage in battle. There will be no light footprint, but heavy boots coming down on those who want to engage in battle with us.
Giuliani - My job as mayor had a lot more to do with things other than 9/11. However, I am the only one here who had to respond to an Islamic terrorist attack. I have negotiated with governments when in the Dept of Justice. I have traveled to 35 different countries. I handed back at $10 million check back to the Saudi government.
Thompson - Romney thinks experience is important in all areas except national security. And national security experience is important. I was on the Intelligence Committee. I was a Republican floor manager for the Homeland Security bill. I was Chairman of the Governmental Affairs committee. I disagree with Mike, not from missteps, but in terms of his view of the world. (To Mitt Romney about Democrats supporting plans) Wasn't that Ted Kennedy at your bill signing ceremony for your health care plan?
Huckabee - It shouldn't matter where the prisoners are geographically (regarding Gitmo).
McCain - (On how he would get OBL) Get us the human intelligence capability and making it a priority. On the senate experience question, I rely on my life experiences, not just senate experience.
On immigration...
McCain - The Z-visa was an earned right not an automatic one. You had to have a job, you had to pay a fine, you had to go through the naturalization process. I have never ever supported amnesty and never will. We have to work together and move forward with this problem. That's our first priority. [Editor's note: I thought finding OBL was his first priority.] We have to have national security first. [Editors note: Lots of firsts, hmmm]
Romney - We are a compassionate and humane people who believe in the rule of law. There are people who have waited in line for a right to be a citizen. How do you know these people have or haven't committed a crime? It is unfair. 'Amnesty would have to be part of the solution.' Those were John McCain's words. It is simply the wrong approach. We welcome people to get in line, not a special pathway.
McCain - Points out that in 2005 Romney said the plan was reasonable. Many will be deported. We have a national security challenge. We need to sit down together for a real solution.
Huckabee - No person in the US should have to hide and live in fear. As long as people are living here illegally they can't hold their head high. [Editor's note: ARGH!!!!!!!! That is the sound of me yelling at my television.] If the families go back, they'll take their children with them. If they get back in line, the issue is resolved. [Rut-roh. He got a bit mad at Romney questioning him. He wants Chris Wallace to be the moderator.] It doesn't make sense to turn kids out on the street. Immigrant families are a family loving people. They come here for their families. He's saying the kid should have to go back but if he is a senior he guesses he could probably stay.
Giuliani - (On changing his view on the value of immigrants) I had to deal with immigrants in a humane and decent way - including health care and education. The immigration service couldn't turn out the number of illegals that they turned over to them from NYC. I have a plan to stop this at the border. You have to identify yourself (tamper proof ID card) when you come in our country. Read, write and speak English. It has to be a comprehensive solution. It has to begin with a fence.
Thompson - In large part my opponents had compassion in their policies, if you make it in you can stay. But are our policies encouraging more generations to come across our borders illegally causing a burden on already strained entitlement programs? What does it say about a country when deporting its citizens is an economic necessity (regarding Mexico's president encouraging border-crossing)?
Final segment - the way the campaign is being waged (negative ads)
McCain - These are attack ads and I don't think they worked. I am running a positive campaign. I wish you had shown one of my mine. I am running because I believe I can lead this country.
Huckabee - (On Romney's 'desperate and deceptive ads') Some of the ads are misleading. I was tempted to counterpunch with attack ads. People are looking for a positive message from president. We need a more civil discourse which will change the way we govern.
Romney - I have spent a lot of money on ads, focused on my positions, in a positive way for a year. I think there is a difference in an attack ad by going after their records not their personal character. I am focusing on the differences in issues. It is important.
Huckabee - If you tell a half-truth as a whole truth then it becomes untruth. [Huh??] It is easy to take other people's records, twist them and make them sound somewhat ominous. The people in Arkansas kept electing me. I think my approval ratings were some of the highest in my state.
Romney - I'm certainly not the only person at this table who has changed their mind on a position. I'm willing to say I was wrong and changed my mind. But I'm not going to be stubborn and unwilling to admit that change exists. We checked very carefully the facts before we submitted them.
Giuliani - I have results against organized crime as mayor. We all have pros and cons in our record. The American people aren't looking for a perfect person. I have done a lot of things. I've made my share of mistakes, own up to them and don't make them again. The Kerik case has nothing to do with me. I should have done a better job of vetting him.
McCain - He won't pledge to only run for 4 years.
Question: Why should you be the Republican nominee?
Giuliani - Over the course of my career I've been tested and get results. Reduced crime, reduced government, gave hope to the hopeless. This country is NOT moving in the wrong direction. It is a question of optimism. I believe I'm ready.
Thompson - I have never lost an election. I have carried a state 20 points twice. Substantively, I have strong national security, balanced budget 4 times, good constructionist judges, strong pro-life voting record. I'm interested in the future of this country. I can provide leadership and credibility.
Huckabee - I have lived life like American's have lived it. I understand that struggle. Consistency in our party's principles. Practical experience running a government. They want practical solutions. [Editor's note: Enough with the populism garbage already.]
Romney - My family told me I ought to get into this. We face extraordinary challenges but also extraordinary opportunities. If we fix what's broken in Washington, we will be even brighter than our past. I can bring change in the private sector or as governor. I will change Washington.
McCain - Our greatest days are ahead of us and I bring the experience and knowledge our country needs. We have to restore trust and confidence in government. I can energize our Republican base as well as reach out to Independents. Thanks New Hampshire.
UPDATE: Beth at My Vast Right Wing Conspiracy also live-blogged. She adds all the wit and analysis that I didn't get to, but I was thinking it. I promise. CMStrapz did some live blogging at Royale With Cheese. His comment below about Fred's debate performance amounting to someone who doesn't like to bloviate is spot on. He adds a lot of humor in his blog post too.
Oh, and wasn't it nice not to hear questions about confederate flags, NRA, the Bible and global warming hand-raising?
Candidates are Fred Thompson, Mike Huckabee, Rudy Giuliani, John McCain, and Mitt Romney. Moderator is Chris Wallace.
First question - Taxes
Romney on his record as governor - Raised fees. Lowering taxes grows the economy, builds jobs and helps families. Senator McCain voted against Bush tax cuts. Cut taxes 19 times in his state and held down spending. Proposed a special savings plan in middle class - zero tax if your income is under $200K.
McCain - I'm proud to support tax cuts that Reagan proposed. He thought we should cut taxes AND spending. We let spending get out of control and the deficit went up. We ended up betraying the principles of the GOP. He'll use the veto pen. He hasn't accepted pork.
[He doesn't want to acknowledge the success of the cuts when questioned again about the Bush cuts. ]
Romney - As governor I cut spending and state employment. I vetoed hundreds of items. I've done those things. I have a record of getting it done.
McCain - Ask various people if he hasn't cut spending in appropriation bills. I have a record of saving billions for the taxpayers.
Huckabee - The semantics about taxes and fees - it is still money the government is taking from you. I cut taxes 94 times and they helped families. We froze property taxes for seniors. We improved our schools, increased teacher pay and rebuilt the road system. It is about saying 'I made government work.'
Romney - Mike, I'm asking you a question did your taxes net an increase of 500 million dollars?
Huckabee - Did you oppose or support the Bush tax cuts?
Romney - I have always supported those tax cuts.
Huckabee - I was under a court order to improve education (excuse for raising taxes).
Giuliani - I lowered the income tax rate by 24%, yielding 42% more revenues. Overall tax burden was reduced by 17% on New Yorkers. I am a supply-sider. Reduce a corporate tax, we would make more money.
Thompson - (responding to Wallace) I never said I was cutting social security. I have the only plan on social security. Allow people to set up individual retirement accounts with matched funds. Index initial retirement benefits to inflation instead of wages. We are making promises to retirees that we can't deliver. Keep the cost of living increase. You take the case to the American people. You have to convince them.
Romney - Reducing the initial benefit of retirees is a big mistake and would be wrong. The other points have merit. Adjusting the retirement age will help.
McCain - I admire Fred's courage. We have to sit down together - Republican and Democrat - and tell the American people that social security is broken and fix it.
On Populism...
Huckabee - Does Romney remind you of someone who laid you off? A lot of people feel like the people in Washington to have a clue of the hardships in the American family. They are working two jobs and not getting ahead.
Romney - You aren't going to help the wage earner in America by attacking the wage giver. It is offensive when Democrats attack the corporate sector. I know what it is like to make a tough decision. We need a president who understands the economy. I know how to deal with China and unfair trade.
Huckabee - I'm the only person saying I oppose corporate taxes and death.
Thompson - You are going to get rid of death?
Huckabee - I meant the death tax. I don't want to tax rich people and make them poor.
Giuliani - I have had the most experience of helping bring people out of poverty. The GOP does not explain well to the poor that our policies are the ladders out of poverty. [Editor's note: I agree with this sentence.] Explain how the programs work - such as work fair.
Thompson - Likes certain aspects of fair tax proposed by Huckabee, but feels the better answer is the Flat Tax proposal. This is revenue neutral. You can succeed with getting this passed as an alternative to the IRS tax structure. A choice - a move toward substantial tax reform.
McCain - I have been an agent of change - including the change in strategy in Iraq. [Editor's note: For a moment when he discussed his greatest change, I thought he was going to say McCain-Feingold. Ah, he did mention it. Ha!] I know how the system works. I know how to go after them. I'm very proud of the change that saved American lives in Iraq.
Romney - (Speaking about McCain) He's been an agent of change. But Washington is fundamentally broken, and needs top to bottom change. Someone inside Washington is not going to be able to make those kinds of changes. Sending the same people to Washington but in different chairs isn't going to make things better [Editor's note: This is a substantial point. I think spending too much time in Washington makes K Street lobbyists rather tempting. Self-induced term limits are a good thing.]
McCain - I also have experience in leadership, not management, when in the US Navy. I'm proud of that. I had the foresight in what needed to be done in Iraq. Americans want security. I know how to meet that challenge of radical Islamic extremism. I know how to get Osama Bin Laden.
Thompson - Everyone's talking about change. It has been a part of every election. What is more important is leadership - telling the American people the truth. The war is going to take time and resources. We aren't going to be energy independent in a few years. We are spending our next generation's money. Those are truths. We have to go to the American people with that kind of honesty/change.
Giuliani - Obama, Clinton and Edwards are talking about change - just the bad kind. Republicans are talking about tax cuts - good changes. Are you going to make us stronger? Are we going to be on offense against Islamic terrorism.
Romney - (On national security and foreign policy experience) The American people time after time have said they want executive experience over senate experience. They want someone with judgment, wisdom, calm under fire, reach out to others, exchange ideas, a person with executive leadership. The Clintons today endorsed Senator McCain's immigration plan.
McCain - Maybe we haven't gotten the best results from those governors depending on which one you look at. I know the players. I never heard Romney criticize the Rumsfeld strategy. I hope the people will judge me on my merits.
Romney - I was running a state at the time the war was entered into. [Editor's note: Running a state doesn't preclude you from having opinions about other national issues - health care, taxes, abortion, etc... Sorry, no pass on that one, Mitt.] I did go to Iraq. I was encouraged by the creation of a coalition government. But I also agreed there were flaws with intelligence and failures there. I wasn't looking at my shoes, I was running a state. My skill is in taking on tough situations and drawing on others to help solve those issues.
Huckabee - (Responding to the many examples Wallace cites about his lack of foreign policy) I've been all over the Middle east, Europe, Asia. I've got more executive experience than anyone running and getting re-elected. My leadership skills are clear - healthcare, transportation, job grown, tax cuts, education. When you make lots of speeches, you make verbal slips, but I don't have slips of moral clarity. We should have the kind of military that no one wants to engage in battle. There will be no light footprint, but heavy boots coming down on those who want to engage in battle with us.
Giuliani - My job as mayor had a lot more to do with things other than 9/11. However, I am the only one here who had to respond to an Islamic terrorist attack. I have negotiated with governments when in the Dept of Justice. I have traveled to 35 different countries. I handed back at $10 million check back to the Saudi government.
Thompson - Romney thinks experience is important in all areas except national security. And national security experience is important. I was on the Intelligence Committee. I was a Republican floor manager for the Homeland Security bill. I was Chairman of the Governmental Affairs committee. I disagree with Mike, not from missteps, but in terms of his view of the world. (To Mitt Romney about Democrats supporting plans) Wasn't that Ted Kennedy at your bill signing ceremony for your health care plan?
Huckabee - It shouldn't matter where the prisoners are geographically (regarding Gitmo).
McCain - (On how he would get OBL) Get us the human intelligence capability and making it a priority. On the senate experience question, I rely on my life experiences, not just senate experience.
On immigration...
McCain - The Z-visa was an earned right not an automatic one. You had to have a job, you had to pay a fine, you had to go through the naturalization process. I have never ever supported amnesty and never will. We have to work together and move forward with this problem. That's our first priority. [Editor's note: I thought finding OBL was his first priority.] We have to have national security first. [Editors note: Lots of firsts, hmmm]
Romney - We are a compassionate and humane people who believe in the rule of law. There are people who have waited in line for a right to be a citizen. How do you know these people have or haven't committed a crime? It is unfair. 'Amnesty would have to be part of the solution.' Those were John McCain's words. It is simply the wrong approach. We welcome people to get in line, not a special pathway.
McCain - Points out that in 2005 Romney said the plan was reasonable. Many will be deported. We have a national security challenge. We need to sit down together for a real solution.
Huckabee - No person in the US should have to hide and live in fear. As long as people are living here illegally they can't hold their head high. [Editor's note: ARGH!!!!!!!! That is the sound of me yelling at my television.] If the families go back, they'll take their children with them. If they get back in line, the issue is resolved. [Rut-roh. He got a bit mad at Romney questioning him. He wants Chris Wallace to be the moderator.] It doesn't make sense to turn kids out on the street. Immigrant families are a family loving people. They come here for their families. He's saying the kid should have to go back but if he is a senior he guesses he could probably stay.
Giuliani - (On changing his view on the value of immigrants) I had to deal with immigrants in a humane and decent way - including health care and education. The immigration service couldn't turn out the number of illegals that they turned over to them from NYC. I have a plan to stop this at the border. You have to identify yourself (tamper proof ID card) when you come in our country. Read, write and speak English. It has to be a comprehensive solution. It has to begin with a fence.
Thompson - In large part my opponents had compassion in their policies, if you make it in you can stay. But are our policies encouraging more generations to come across our borders illegally causing a burden on already strained entitlement programs? What does it say about a country when deporting its citizens is an economic necessity (regarding Mexico's president encouraging border-crossing)?
Final segment - the way the campaign is being waged (negative ads)
McCain - These are attack ads and I don't think they worked. I am running a positive campaign. I wish you had shown one of my mine. I am running because I believe I can lead this country.
Huckabee - (On Romney's 'desperate and deceptive ads') Some of the ads are misleading. I was tempted to counterpunch with attack ads. People are looking for a positive message from president. We need a more civil discourse which will change the way we govern.
Romney - I have spent a lot of money on ads, focused on my positions, in a positive way for a year. I think there is a difference in an attack ad by going after their records not their personal character. I am focusing on the differences in issues. It is important.
Huckabee - If you tell a half-truth as a whole truth then it becomes untruth. [Huh??] It is easy to take other people's records, twist them and make them sound somewhat ominous. The people in Arkansas kept electing me. I think my approval ratings were some of the highest in my state.
Romney - I'm certainly not the only person at this table who has changed their mind on a position. I'm willing to say I was wrong and changed my mind. But I'm not going to be stubborn and unwilling to admit that change exists. We checked very carefully the facts before we submitted them.
Giuliani - I have results against organized crime as mayor. We all have pros and cons in our record. The American people aren't looking for a perfect person. I have done a lot of things. I've made my share of mistakes, own up to them and don't make them again. The Kerik case has nothing to do with me. I should have done a better job of vetting him.
McCain - He won't pledge to only run for 4 years.
Question: Why should you be the Republican nominee?
Giuliani - Over the course of my career I've been tested and get results. Reduced crime, reduced government, gave hope to the hopeless. This country is NOT moving in the wrong direction. It is a question of optimism. I believe I'm ready.
Thompson - I have never lost an election. I have carried a state 20 points twice. Substantively, I have strong national security, balanced budget 4 times, good constructionist judges, strong pro-life voting record. I'm interested in the future of this country. I can provide leadership and credibility.
Huckabee - I have lived life like American's have lived it. I understand that struggle. Consistency in our party's principles. Practical experience running a government. They want practical solutions. [Editor's note: Enough with the populism garbage already.]
Romney - My family told me I ought to get into this. We face extraordinary challenges but also extraordinary opportunities. If we fix what's broken in Washington, we will be even brighter than our past. I can bring change in the private sector or as governor. I will change Washington.
McCain - Our greatest days are ahead of us and I bring the experience and knowledge our country needs. We have to restore trust and confidence in government. I can energize our Republican base as well as reach out to Independents. Thanks New Hampshire.
UPDATE: Beth at My Vast Right Wing Conspiracy also live-blogged. She adds all the wit and analysis that I didn't get to, but I was thinking it. I promise. CMStrapz did some live blogging at Royale With Cheese. His comment below about Fred's debate performance amounting to someone who doesn't like to bloviate is spot on. He adds a lot of humor in his blog post too.
Oh, and wasn't it nice not to hear questions about confederate flags, NRA, the Bible and global warming hand-raising?
Oh yeah, Boooo!!! to FOX for keeping Ron Paul out of the forum. lol
RM, What? No boo because Hunter got left out too? lol
Ouch! The post-debate focus group is roasting Huckabee. He bombed on the first question. He has too much religion in his presentation.
They really liked Romney.
Wow. A ton of people thought Thompson was weak. They say he is rambling. He's not effective at communicating.
Most think Obama will be the nominee. They think Romney can beat him.
I've got a theory on why Thompson is not as well perceived as some of the other candidates. He has simple answers to the questions. Because he doesn't have the baggage of the other candidates, he doesn't have to be as nuanced in his positions to avoid contradicting himself. This means that he might seem a little flip when responding to questions, and because his answers are short, it can be perceived that he is rambling, because he wants to use his time.
If Hunter was included then it would have been 6 party hacks and Ron Paul instead of 5 party hacks and Ron Paul. Zing! (I've been waiting all year to use that one) ha!
Thompson is still a relative unknown compared to the others. But I'm sure that enough dirt will come out between now and February.
Like I said in your other thread, I'm going to have to give Fred a demerit for not addressing inflation, the Fed, and hard money. (From last nights debate)
Thanks for the link!
I thought Romney did pretty well too. But I might be biased.